Actually I think I’m getting a little tired of every single interaction hinging on miscommunication

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Seriously, it's not a song.
Iron Bull & Sera Banter
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From the new video

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No seriously I KNOW that voice. HAS ANYBODY GUESSED AT THIS YET?

I’m almost certain it’s someone who did a voice on an older cartoon, and i’m half convinced it IS Keith David

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what will you fight for first? [ x ]

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Hook:  Perhaps I could talk to the boy.

Emma:  About what?  Leather oil and eyeliner?

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Get ready and mark your calendars, Moonies!

Sailor Moon Crystal to air July 5th at 7pm 

Airs First and Third Saturdays of the month!

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THIS TO THE MILLIONTH POWER. Killing off the only known person with a natural immunity to the infection before you can study her? Just bad science, people. 

Marlene and the fireflies never struck me as heroes, although as “the underdogs” I think we have a natural tendency to want to root for them. They started out with high ideals, but they’ve basically become a terrorist organization. Marlene choosing to sacrifice Ellie, despite her promise to Anna to take care of her? It’s reprehensible, and shows Marlene for the ideologue she is.

And yet, I can’t call Joel the hero of the story either. He’s too morally gray for that, and he does things (and alludes to doing things) that we’re meant to feel really uncomfortable with. The torture? Murdering the surgeon? Murdering Marlene in cold blood? None of what Joel does is particularly heroic. Unless you look at him fighting his way through a small army to rescue Ellie, because that’s some serious fairy-tale level rescue fantasy right there. 

If anyone’s a hero in The Last of Us, surely it must be Ellie, who’s brave and altruistic, and whose choice to help humanity drives the whole plot along. Honestly, it’s a good thing antihero Joel is along for the ride, just to stop her from sacrificing herself

Yeah I started clarifying a point a second ago with The-last-of-us-forever, but paintbrushing “joel” as an all around hero is incorrect.  I think I more meant in that specific moment his actions were heroic—IE, saving Ellie from people who were going to murder her for no real reason.  

The whole killing of Marlene and the surgeon…/hand waggles/  I can see arguments in both directions (though I’ll note there are radicalized issues with Marlene’s being the sole black woman in the series that I can see, though I’m really not the person to be discussing them).  I can even understand why Joel felt that he had to do those things, though its hard to call them heroic in any traditional sense. 

But yes, If looking at the series from an overall perspective, Ellie is definitely the more traditionally heroic while Joel is the anti-hero.  And it does make for a great balance.

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So guys, let’s talk!

I want to know what you guys think of Joel, our favorite anti-hero, or the well-intentioned extremist, Marlene. Who was the real enemy, or antagonist? I’m sure a lot of us would say Marlene, as we play the game, as Joel and experience his story, not Marlene’s. Maybe some of you have missed this, but towards the end, in the Firefly lab, there is a tape recorder of Marlene’s that is heartbreaking in its own right, describing her promise to Ellie’s mom about protecting her. But in the end, her choice is to potentially “save” the world and to “believe in the fireflies”, and so she breaks her promise to Anna. Joel on the other hand, basically damns the whole world by choosing Ellie instead of making the “moral decision” as a lot of people would also call it. But, by lying to Ellie, and keeping her with him, he too broke his promise to Tess, the one who drove him to this journey in the first place.

SO! what do you guys think?

was there any real hero to this story?

I suppose I can start my day with a bit of meta:

There was a lot of shit being flung at Joel over the end of TLoU that I never quite understood.  They were talking about him “damning the world” but honestly…

If your solution to “saving the world” is to murder people just because their deaths MIGHT help your cause, your solution is invalid already.  That’s the part about the ending I could never quite wrap my head around.  They could have started literally ANYWHERE with Ellie, but they immediately jumped to “We need to cut her open and see how the fungus did this.”  Which, when you only have the one subject at the time, seems really, really, REALLY off the damn wall.  Blood work, observational work, MRIs.  There were hundreds of other ways they could have worked with Ellie while she was still alive, and to be frank a living specimen of this nature is way more valuable than a dead one which will start to deteriorate within a few hours of being cut up.

The whole thing stank of a sick, end-of-our-rope desperation no longer making rational decisions.  They had NEGATIVE ZERO idea of whether or not killing this kid would actually help jack shit, and they decided to do it anyway on the slim offchance it actually would.

So yeah. I’m going to have to go with Joel being an actual hero here.  As for his lying to Ellie…He could have told her the truth, that I agree less with—but from an emotional POV I can see why Joel did.  He was worried what she’d do to herself if she knew the truth, and knowing Joel (and these writers) he wouldn’t have started with “I found their ‘research’ and they admitted they had no idea if killing you would actually help.” 

I , M , personally agree with your poit of view. And I feel that at the end Ellie knew he was lying and tried so hard to believe him so that they could leave that part of their lives behind them. As for the firefly research ,
I agree that their measures were drastic but in the apocalypse the other option would’ve taken to long for te fireflies. They were losing soldiers and support across the country and if they found a cure it would change everything.
But cutting a 14 year old girls head open is drastic.
And seeing Joel as a hero can go both ways. From the Joel and Ellie perspective he is the hero. But when you think about the countless Firefly soldiers and government soldiers he killed and the families they had to support , he turns into a killer.
But nevertheless Joel remains a survivor and Hero for me

Oh yeah, I think she definitely knew he was lying and decided to trust that whatever happened had happened for the best.  Or maybe because there was no other option to it any more.  I mean, as much as the world had hurt it—that was really the only world she ever knew.  It was way more Joel’s world before the disaster and you would think he would be far more invested than her in getting it back if he could. 

But as for the part with Joel killing countless soldiers and fireflies…

Maybe I’m heartless, but I’m of the mind that once people start shooting in these sorts of situations, neither side is right.  Would it be any better if they’d killed Joel?  That would make them just as murderous as he was.  Just because they give themselves “greater causes” outside of themselves doesn’t make what they’ve been doing any less murder.  They shoot at each other, both sides have families and friends.  The government kill citizens all the damn time, as evidenced throughout the game, and the fireflies aren’t above bombing things or murdering children in last minute desperate attempts to find a cure. 

Yeah, finding the cure could change everything…or it might not.  The world was never going to go back to being exactly as it was—you can’t change something that drastically and return it back exactly to what it was before.  Everyone would still know, those already infected would likely still be infected with or without a vaccine since there’s no way you can reduce the kind of brain damage the fungus would have already induced, and the government would still be a corrupt and power hungry military state.  The fireflies would just have a little more support.  Maybe.

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Did someone officially conirm that’s Leliana because that really, really doesn’t look anything like Leli.  A Chantry Sister, sure, I can see the…sort-of-looks-like-the-old-uniform to what she’s wearing, but still not leli.  Her face is totally wrong.

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